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[Music]

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepared

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to had a paradigm is shifted and your

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truths questioned and now shattered

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reality hey another day and another

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reality to be shattered faroush a-- yes

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indeed Kate how are you today I'm fine

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thank you how have you been I've been

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I've been okay but I actually did have a

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very strange experience this morning

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that involves our next guest and I want

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to just slate before we start today is

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February 28th 2017 man I'm here to say

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that we have a marvelously interesting

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guest today we have mr. Tom Butler who

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is an expert on electronic voice

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production also known as EVP he has two

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websites one of which is a tra NSC org

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the other is etheric studies org he also

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has a book called your immortal self

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exploring the mindful way and this book

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is almost like three books in one it is

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a very it is a very compelling book it

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has loads of information in it not only

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about electronic voice production but

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other things he and his wife Lisa are

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the people in charge of a group called a

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trans C which is a publicly funded group

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that involves electronic voice

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production and let's say hello to Tom

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and he'll tell us more about it it

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sounds like a great idea

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hello so what we wanted to start off

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with with was maybe for you to explain

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to us

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little bit about these acronyms some of

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our listeners actually have met you and

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they have already one of them has a

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question for you other of our listeners

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I don't know all of our listeners we do

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have you know somewhat worldwide

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listenership certainly in the UK etc but

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not everybody is an expert on electronic

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voice production not or contraire so

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it's necessary for you to explain some

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of these acronyms if you don't mind ok

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well I'll start out with the the first

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one our association was started by a

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lady named Sarah II stepped 1982 and it

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was put together to help people who were

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working with what were really voices

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that shouldn't be on the recordings they

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were making there they would get in a

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very very quiet room and sometimes even

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put their recorder in a microwave oven

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to shield us from radio waves and they

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were still getting these voices and they

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they came to realise by the content of

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some of the words that there were often

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voices of people that are on the other

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side now loved ones we're it was common

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somebody would say like a good example I

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think is Martha Copeland's daughter

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Cathy transitioned very young and she

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started receiving when she recorded

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voices recorded with her audio recorder

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Cathy's voice would show up in the

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recording sometimes and we have one that

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I'm really proud of that she made were

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her Cathy's dog Martha inherited Cathy's

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dog when Cathy made her transition and

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the dog was home alone tearing things up

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Martha was of the habit of leaving a

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voice-activated recorder on because she

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always wanted to hear from our daughter

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and you get it in the recording it says

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doja No

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in Kathy's voice really scolding her dog

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that in the process of tearing up a

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house that's amazing that's kind of the

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nature of the voices and they're you

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know you're saying protection I only

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have to make one minor correction it's

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electronic voice phenomena oh and and

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did so that's the EVP and the

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instrumental transcommunication is a

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voice or is a acronym or a term coined

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to describe both voice and visual

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examples of this contact from the other

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side and the other one instrumental

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transcommunication is ITC yes

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what would the visual communications

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that would show up like on a TV a TV or

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something of that nature yeah more often

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something some of the early material and

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some that Lisa and I have recorded as

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you develop a video loop the idea is

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that you create a lot of the video

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frequency noise and the faces form in

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that noise just like voices form in the

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audio frequency noise and in some cases

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it's been people we've called on I have

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a fair likeness of my father there was

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one person that came through you can

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also create this audio or visual noise

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where there by rapidly moving water that

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has light reflected from it okay and

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then the that chaos that the whole idea

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seems like to come across all these

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phenomena is it looks like the

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impression of our intention causes more

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order to show up in a chaotic

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environment so basically these faces are

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what I call transform or the voices are

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transformed out of the noise a couple of

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shows ago one of our listeners a

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gentleman named Peter sometimes at the

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end of the show not today but sometimes

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at the end of the show we have something

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which is like listeners corner where

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some of our listeners will contact us

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about

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an experience that they have had and

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listener Peter a couple of shows ago

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came on and he was telling us about

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being out at the hotel in California

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famous hotel do you remember the name of

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a cait coronado or maybe so down in

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southern california and he was there

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with his son his young son who was like

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a teenager at the time if fellow's grown

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up now is probably around thirty but at

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the time he was a teenager and he

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stopped in there on his way to San Diego

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with his son and during the middle of

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the night Peter saw a the TV seemed to

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come on and a woman was asking for help

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and apparently she may have been one of

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the people who was killed in that hotel

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and in times past because the the people

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at the front desk were not that

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surprised by the fact that Peter had had

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an experience but his experience was

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rather lengthy with this woman on the TV

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box and he had pulled out the pulled out

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the connection to the wall and

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everything but she didn't go away until

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until the Sun came up I I believe that's

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what he told us in any case but that's

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would be a more of an ITC type of thing

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I take it yes the visual form of ITC

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you know every day I learned of a new

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way that these phenomena happened the

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one of the forms of phenomena that we

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get pretty frequently is what I refer to

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as face on turned off TV and very often

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there's a child in the picture or in the

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room and it's as if somebody is peering

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into the room and in relationship to

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this child and in some cases we've

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identified that it was like a aunt who

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is transitioned to the other side

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watching her child's first steps or that

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the little boys first steps and again

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the television set turned off and

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not visually the face not visible during

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the event

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but when pictures were taken in examined

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there's that face and it falls it

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doesn't follow any pattern of other

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kinds of phenomena it's all by itself

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and well you're describing from that

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Hotel sounds like a prolonged version of

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that I can see where they could be very

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unnerving for a person yeah especially

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since a she was he was alone with his

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young son wasn't a little child but he

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was and it was really right before

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cellphones were prominent with photo

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photographic capabilities so he has no

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photographic evidence but he sounded

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very credible and in or listener corner

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we never questioned the listener in a

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critical or parody disparaging way

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because everybody has their own

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experiences and it's not our duty to

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make light of them in any way shape or

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form if we've spoken to our listeners

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before our show we will never ever

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disparage them when they come on in

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terms of the listeners corner and wonder

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once in a while we do ask vaguely

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skeptical questions of our guests but

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it's not meant in any way to be sort of

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negative towards them but just that

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there are people who have questions that

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want to know that are not debunking but

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perhaps skeptical on some level I wonder

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if you could give us a little background

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and hope I say this gentleman's name

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correctly I believe that the foremost

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proponent of EVP early on was constant

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in a road I've thought of a ok so

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another country yes indeed EC Eastern

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European I believe I heard him speak

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once in German but German is not his

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first tongue

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I think you might have been a lefty and

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I'm not sure but in the Germanic area

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there yes he he was one actually

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Frederic Jorgensen is credited with

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discovering the phenomena 1959

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accidentally recording voices he was

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recording bird calls according to the

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story it's nighttime bird calls and he

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got on the recording that he listened to

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later his mother's voice and Virata they

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found out about his work and basically

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went to him to learn how to record these

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voices and the two of them study that

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Radha is credited with giving bringing

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EVP to the english-speaking world with

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the book called breakthrough and it all

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kind of began from there how did you

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I would not too long after we got

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married she picked up a book on by

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series two and started reading about EVP

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and it took her she said about a year

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before she started recording the first

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few messages that she listened had me

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listen to not only that I think that she

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I'm an engineer and I was really sure

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that she was mistaking and and I didn't

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hear anything with noise but then she

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finally recorded one that is probably

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one of the best messages I've ever heard

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and this says that a bird had fallen out

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of the nest by where she worked and then

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died and she asked her communicators

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during a VP session what she should have

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done and this angelic voice is the first

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EVP I ever heard said release and

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remember one voice and for that these

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messages are usually very short and for

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just a few syllables that is a world of

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information something for us to remember

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for all

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once on the other side so that's how

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kind of I got started mostly helping her

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and then later on Sara Estep she joined

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Sara's group and then Sara asked us if

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we would assume leadership of the group

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when she could no longer run it we said

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yes and took over in 2000 and that's

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kind of where we began we we just

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recently we changed the name from the

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American Association of electronic voice

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phenomena to insta was association

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transcommunication or a Trancy in 2010

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we did that because we had people from

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all around the world as members and we

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were studying many forms of transit

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Erica influence Lilia transcommunication

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following that definition mental

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mediumship is trans communication so we

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were studying all of that and to be able

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to broaden the audience and be more open

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to other countries we changed the name

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to Association trans communication and

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and unfortunately or I guess you could

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look at it as unfortunately people have

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different ways of looking at somebody's

274
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passing but and mrs. estep died last

275
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:54,570
year is that correct there's a few years

276
00:15:01,040 --> 00:14:56,280
ago I'm not sure two years ago okay now

277
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:01,050
but yeah it's been a few years and yeah

278
00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:02,580
we're still in touch with her her

279
00:15:07,190 --> 00:15:05,190
daughter and we have one of our books

280
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:07,200
that you can download for free on the

281
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:09,720
matter of fact the one that Lisa started

282
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:12,330
but it's on the website you want to tell

283
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,680
us the name of the book because many

284
00:15:17,390 --> 00:15:16,560
people who are listening may want to do

285
00:15:18,980 --> 00:15:17,400
exactly that

286
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:18,990
so they'll know what to look for on your

287
00:15:23,180 --> 00:15:22,140
website now this is the a trancey org

288
00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:23,190
website correct

289
00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:26,360
all right under the year the resources

290
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:31,350
and man I haven't looked at the word in

291
00:15:36,170 --> 00:15:34,410
her name it's a voice of eternity if I

292
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:36,180
remember correctly she had another one

293
00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:44,629
there's other resources and but I find

294
00:15:49,310 --> 00:15:46,230
to time while you're looking for that

295
00:15:52,189 --> 00:15:49,320
that you know a lot of the so-called

296
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:52,199
paranormal phenomena are relatively well

297
00:15:58,250 --> 00:15:56,010
known but EVP I've actually until

298
00:16:01,699 --> 00:15:58,260
Ferruccio brought it up I really was

299
00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:01,709
unfamiliar with it I just know it sounds

300
00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:03,240
fascinating but I just hadn't haven't

301
00:16:09,019 --> 00:16:06,899
really even heard of it well it's it's

302
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:09,029
on the father that is voices of eternity

303
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:12,300
your other book has roads to eternity

304
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:16,649
but in the parapsychological community

305
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:19,250
the people that study these phenomena

306
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,230
EVPs kind of really low on the list of

307
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,000
things they're going to study mm-hm

308
00:16:30,170 --> 00:16:27,360
it's the ITT in general both forms of

309
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:30,180
the phenomena is just now beginning to

310
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:32,490
get a little bit more recognition with

311
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:36,800
with them prior to the movie white noise

312
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:41,279
EVP was really it was so far out on the

313
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:43,769
fringe of society that not too many

314
00:16:48,259 --> 00:16:46,410
people knew about it it's really it's

315
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:48,269
incredible it's really difficult to say

316
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:51,209
that it makes any kind of sense at all

317
00:16:58,579 --> 00:16:54,690
yet there it is and after the movie

318
00:17:00,829 --> 00:16:58,589
white noise that the producers told us

319
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:00,839
that they wanted to make EVP a household

320
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:05,250
term like crop circles and UFOs and so

321
00:17:10,579 --> 00:17:07,530
based on that we said okay we'll help

322
00:17:13,010 --> 00:17:10,589
advertise a book or a movie we had

323
00:17:16,610 --> 00:17:13,020
nothing to do with the movie itself so

324
00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:16,620
don't blame those Hollywood annihilation

325
00:17:23,809 --> 00:17:21,630
so to speak thanks yeah but since then

326
00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:23,819
you know every town has a few ghost

327
00:17:29,860 --> 00:17:25,350
hunting clubs and every ghost hunting

328
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:29,870
club has a one or two EVP practitioners

329
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:34,200
there's still a lot of people working

330
00:17:38,780 --> 00:17:36,030
with us privately you know the

331
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:38,790
individual and small groups it's it

332
00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:40,860
actually has become pretty much of a

333
00:17:46,490 --> 00:17:43,790
common term amongst people

334
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:46,500
paranormalists in general and it's

335
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:49,770
little by little I was invited to help

336
00:17:55,150 --> 00:17:52,910
write a paragraph or a chapter rather

337
00:17:59,080 --> 00:17:55,160
a new handbook of metaphysics that came

338
00:18:01,450 --> 00:17:59,090
out a handbook of parapsychological 101

339
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:01,460
grapes I forget the name of it anyway

340
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:04,820
that the pair psychologist asked me to

341
00:18:09,250 --> 00:18:07,550
help him write the chapter on EVP and so

342
00:18:11,950 --> 00:18:09,260
there was actually a chapter in there

343
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:11,960
for the first time ever on EVP so we're

344
00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:16,640
making progress good good now I know

345
00:18:22,290 --> 00:18:19,220
that you have had some difficulties with

346
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:22,300
skeptics or really what I call debunkers

347
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:26,180
and I feel like the people who are in

348
00:18:33,310 --> 00:18:29,630
the scientism crowd the people that are

349
00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:33,320
involved with Wikipedia who are just

350
00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:36,470
debunkers I you know am totally against

351
00:18:45,030 --> 00:18:40,100
that and a lot of our guests have had

352
00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:45,040
problems with their wiki pages such as

353
00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:50,870
dr. Russell Targ and so I'm really not a

354
00:18:58,180 --> 00:18:55,640
big fan of Wikipedia where it comes to

355
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:58,190
anything having to do with metaphysics

356
00:19:05,410 --> 00:19:00,260
or the paranormal because they're the

357
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:05,420
first ones who put a big heavy stone in

358
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:09,200
your boat so to speak and but I do I

359
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:12,410
just have I have one question which

360
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:15,130
isn't skeptical exactly it's just

361
00:19:23,070 --> 00:19:20,240
something that sort of comes to my mind

362
00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:23,080
because of some experiences I have had

363
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:25,220
specifically one with a particular

364
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:30,130
client if you recall I do work as a

365
00:19:35,770 --> 00:19:33,280
intuitive reader I do not work

366
00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:35,780
specifically as a medium though I have

367
00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:38,420
had certain messages come through me

368
00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:42,560
though not certainly I am NOT a trance

369
00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:44,870
medium that has anybody speak through me

370
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:47,240
and I don't claim to be able to speak to

371
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,090
the dead per se but sometimes I do get

372
00:19:58,210 --> 00:19:52,880
messages and a woman came to me and she

373
00:20:01,000 --> 00:19:58,220
was getting a lot of messages from some

374
00:20:04,060 --> 00:20:01,010
entity that was claiming to be one or

375
00:20:04,980 --> 00:20:04,070
the other person in her life but then

376
00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:04,990
was telling her

377
00:20:12,529 --> 00:20:08,590
like 10 or 15 true things and then

378
00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:12,539
twisting things and when she came to me

379
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:15,640
a ring that I was wearing started

380
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:18,640
burning on my hand and it really kind of

381
00:20:26,490 --> 00:20:20,950
freaked me out to be honest with you and

382
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:26,500
I actually sent her to have a a exorcism

383
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:31,570
by a Buddhist healer that I am I know

384
00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:36,370
very well so I am wondering if and I am

385
00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:39,190
a believer that we really do not die

386
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:41,590
that our consciousness goes on in some

387
00:20:48,060 --> 00:20:44,710
form do I know exactly what form no I

388
00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:48,070
can't tell you that but so I'm not like

389
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:49,870
a person as I'm saying I'm not a

390
00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:52,690
debunker but how do we tell the

391
00:20:58,649 --> 00:20:56,289
difference between what I would call a

392
00:21:02,760 --> 00:20:58,659
dis incarnate entity a disembodied

393
00:21:05,639 --> 00:21:02,770
spirit maybe not a spirit of a person

394
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:05,649
but nonetheless an entity how do we tell

395
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:08,110
the difference between an entity like

396
00:21:15,090 --> 00:21:11,080
this woman seemed to have besieging her

397
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:15,100
and you know you're you're dead you're

398
00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:19,390
dead grandmother let's say the current

399
00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:23,020
science mainstream psychology and

400
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:26,700
increasingly with parapsychology is

401
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:31,080
beginning to realize that we process

402
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:34,679
information from our environment first

403
00:21:40,110 --> 00:21:37,690
unconsciously and then consciously I'll

404
00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:40,120
you know after it's been processed it's

405
00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:43,990
run through let's call it a a way of a

406
00:21:49,620 --> 00:21:46,750
way of comparing the information with

407
00:21:52,409 --> 00:21:49,630
your worldview your memory of what's

408
00:21:54,779 --> 00:21:52,419
real and not real and if it doesn't fit

409
00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:54,789
with that then you might very well just

410
00:22:02,820 --> 00:21:57,460
reject it and never be consciously aware

411
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:02,830
of it more likely what will happen is

412
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:06,610
that it will match up some way with what

413
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:08,460
you have in your memory your worldview

414
00:22:14,909 --> 00:22:11,919
and you will become conscious of that

415
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:14,919
information based on your interpretation

416
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:17,760
of it oh and and

417
00:22:23,140 --> 00:22:20,610
we they're beginning to realize that we

418
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:23,150
go through every moment of our life

419
00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:26,010
basically doing that and that's things

420
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:28,280
that we physically see those things that

421
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:31,050
the working theory in parapsychology is

422
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:36,240
that everything has a sigh or let's call

423
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:38,310
it a psychic signature that it

424
00:22:42,350 --> 00:22:40,770
broadcasts out into the world and we're

425
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,360
aware of all of those and we process

426
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:45,120
them and ignore a lot of them and but

427
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:48,290
all of them come to our conscious mind

428
00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:52,170
the way we understand them and so what

429
00:23:00,650 --> 00:22:54,680
happens I call it cultural contamination

430
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:00,660
a good example is that whitey Schieffer

431
00:23:06,170 --> 00:23:03,690
had a cover on I think it was communion

432
00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:06,180
was this paperback yes

433
00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:10,380
an alien face on it before that book

434
00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:13,620
came out if aliens had it you know we're

435
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:15,960
all shapes and sizes and colors you can

436
00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:19,650
imagine very happy now when people have

437
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:22,760
an alien encounter it very typically

438
00:23:28,850 --> 00:23:25,500
matches up pretty closely with that book

439
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:28,860
cover so right now when somebody says

440
00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:31,110
well I was abducted by aliens this what

441
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:31,800
they look like

442
00:23:37,250 --> 00:23:35,010
my first thought is that the experience

443
00:23:39,170 --> 00:23:37,260
may very well be real but the way it's

444
00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:39,180
coming to me now the way the person is

445
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:42,270
remembering and describing it to me has

446
00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:45,780
probably been changed because of his

447
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,350
cultural upbringing yes well that's

448
00:23:53,030 --> 00:23:51,360
actually the way the body experiences

449
00:23:55,310 --> 00:23:53,040
pain too I mean there's the initial

450
00:23:58,130 --> 00:23:55,320
stimulus it goes into the spinal cord

451
00:24:00,110 --> 00:23:58,140
and the spinal cord then shoots it up to

452
00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:00,120
the cerebrum that will or will not

453
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:02,670
reject that and so you have a three

454
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:06,090
pathway of experiencing pain most of the

455
00:24:10,010 --> 00:24:07,860
time is just locally and it just shoots

456
00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:10,020
often that's that but that would be

457
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:11,580
interesting because I'm sure the same

458
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:13,980
pathway exists I think actually you're

459
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:15,630
really onto something that makes perfect

460
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:17,760
sense what you've been saying yes I

461
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:20,610
agree where the way the trick is is

462
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:23,810
being able to distinguish between yeah i

463
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,410
okay yeah I know an awful lot about

464
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:30,480
paranormal phenomena but I don't know

465
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:31,410
enough about

466
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:33,780
to say that no that's not real or that

467
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,970
you you're mistaking about your

468
00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:38,400
experience and I don't think anybody

469
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:38,940
does

470
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:41,460
we're still learning it's knowable but

471
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:43,530
we still have a lot to learn and when

472
00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:47,370
somebody has to let's say they're giving

473
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:50,940
you a mediumship message it I know from

474
00:24:55,970 --> 00:24:52,740
personal experience because I give

475
00:25:02,540 --> 00:24:55,980
spirit greetings and spiritual society

476
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:02,550
every Sunday that it's very easy for me

477
00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:04,980
to color my message to the person based

478
00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:07,680
on how I perceive the person if they

479
00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:09,960
look like they're really tired that I

480
00:25:13,910 --> 00:25:11,700
have to resist giving them a tired

481
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:13,920
message now the message that's coming

482
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:17,400
through might very well be a valid

483
00:25:21,730 --> 00:25:19,590
message it's just that by time I my

484
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:21,740
unconscious mind gets through with it

485
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,650
it's not so so accurate so what we talk

486
00:25:31,730 --> 00:25:28,320
about is lucidity meaning that I'm I'm

487
00:25:34,790 --> 00:25:31,740
more or less lucidly aware of my inner

488
00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:34,800
consciousness and and what I have a term

489
00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:37,620
life uses hyper lucidity meaning that I

490
00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:40,380
think I'm more or less aware but I'm not

491
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:43,800
actually so one of the measures you can

492
00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:47,130
use is what I use for myself is is it a

493
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:52,560
surprise to me if I'm thinking like worn

494
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:55,440
out old man in front of me and instead

495
00:26:00,440 --> 00:25:57,990
I'm thinking wow you've got something

496
00:26:03,050 --> 00:26:00,450
really going on that's a surprise to me

497
00:26:04,550 --> 00:26:03,060
right and so I'll go with that and the

498
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:04,560
same thing I think that if somebody

499
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:07,620
tells you something if it sounds like

500
00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:11,100
them then I'll say oh okay well I'll

501
00:26:18,260 --> 00:26:14,220
keep that for future reference how do

502
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:18,270
you feel about the concept that we are

503
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:20,400
bombarded with a lot more information

504
00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:24,000
than we are actually able to process and

505
00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:27,020
that our minds are actually a

506
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:30,420
transceiver of information from the

507
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:32,700
consciousness which is larger so that

508
00:26:38,030 --> 00:26:35,310
our brains I mean are just a transceiver

509
00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:38,040
of that information and whittles down

510
00:26:43,330 --> 00:26:42,180
what we see so that we can continue to

511
00:26:45,970 --> 00:26:43,340
live in

512
00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:45,980
a world that might have predators or we

513
00:26:53,530 --> 00:26:47,720
have to watch out for not getting hit by

514
00:26:56,980 --> 00:26:53,540
a car etc etc the that emerging theory

515
00:26:59,470 --> 00:26:56,990
that has becoming widely accepted in

516
00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:59,480
parapsychology is written by James

517
00:27:05,830 --> 00:27:02,320
Carpenter he's is both mainstream

518
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:05,840
psychologists I think the therapists and

519
00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:07,970
he's a he was president of the

520
00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:10,760
parapsychological Association for one

521
00:27:17,470 --> 00:27:13,100
year I think anyway he's written a book

522
00:27:19,450 --> 00:27:17,480
called first sight theory it's a

523
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:19,460
difficult read Thursday if you if you

524
00:27:27,370 --> 00:27:23,110
google it with his name you'll find a

525
00:27:31,270 --> 00:27:27,380
pretty good PDF file on it I've I've got

526
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:31,280
it on my etheric studies org if you

527
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:32,810
search for a first sight there you can

528
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:34,330
find it in a number of places and

529
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:37,370
basically it just says what you just

530
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:40,640
described and his piss operating species

531
00:27:49,210 --> 00:27:45,170
is that one everything produces the word

532
00:27:51,850 --> 00:27:49,220
psi sigh yes is the place keeper for

533
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:51,860
psychic energy or it's likeif influence

534
00:27:58,210 --> 00:27:54,770
so everything produces a sign

535
00:28:00,930 --> 00:27:58,220
signal everything your dead Uncle John

536
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:00,940
the chair in front of you everything oh

537
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:06,650
and when you express your unconscious

538
00:28:12,510 --> 00:28:09,200
even before it becomes conscious to you

539
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:12,520
your unconscious expression produces a

540
00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:16,640
psychokinetic signal or influence and so

541
00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:19,100
that's that's basically a force or

542
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:20,750
influence that you're putting out into

543
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,730
the environment so for instance when you

544
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:25,520
think you know god I hate that car well

545
00:28:31,180 --> 00:28:28,310
you're sending a message out there that

546
00:28:34,110 --> 00:28:31,190
is certainly not helpful for your car no

547
00:28:36,910 --> 00:28:34,120
no no so so that's those are the two

548
00:28:39,490 --> 00:28:36,920
foundation ideas and then based on he's

549
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,500
got thirteen corollaries that talk about

550
00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:41,840
well basically it's a rule set for how

551
00:28:47,230 --> 00:28:44,150
we think unconsciously and one of the

552
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:47,240
things is that we turn toward ideas or

553
00:28:52,540 --> 00:28:49,610
we turn away from ideas unconsciously

554
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:52,550
depending on our own interest we we

555
00:28:56,740 --> 00:28:54,710
switch back and forth very rapidly or

556
00:29:00,380 --> 00:28:56,750
not so rapidly

557
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:00,390
the good news is that what I call

558
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:03,330
mindful what mindfulness and not the

559
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:04,920
mindful living they're teaching so much

560
00:29:09,950 --> 00:29:08,100
on the internet but being aware of the

561
00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:09,960
implications of your actions and

562
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:15,060
thoughts you can actually control how

563
00:29:20,690 --> 00:29:17,640
you respond to these unconscious

564
00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:20,700
thoughts so if you're exactly right on

565
00:29:26,390 --> 00:29:23,160
you where you're going is the right side

566
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:26,400
it's worth looking up I've tried to

567
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:30,690
digest it and if I like I say search on

568
00:29:36,620 --> 00:29:33,930
ethic studies not org for first sight

569
00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:36,630
theory you know I've used I've applied

570
00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:38,100
it in there in a lot of different ways

571
00:29:44,150 --> 00:29:41,100
that will help people but it's to me

572
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:44,160
it's a very powerful and important

573
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:47,970
change to the paranormalist community

574
00:29:58,820 --> 00:29:54,530
because it gives you a foundation a good

575
00:30:02,090 --> 00:29:58,830
scientific foundation for why we need to

576
00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:02,100
be really careful about our channeling

577
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:04,680
and our mediumship and our paranormal

578
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,690
experiences because they're all being

579
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:08,720
kind of translated by our unconscious

580
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:11,460
expectations yes yes I could see where

581
00:30:18,730 --> 00:30:14,310
that would definitely be the case and I

582
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:18,740
know that it within the community of

583
00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:23,310
near-death experiencers the the

584
00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:26,340
scientific people parapsychologists

585
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:31,040
versus neuro scientists so to speak the

586
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:34,320
parapsychologists often go with the idea

587
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:36,930
which we just kind of spoke about

588
00:30:42,770 --> 00:30:39,810
whereas the neuroscientists many of them

589
00:30:46,250 --> 00:30:42,780
still believe that the brain is the

590
00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:46,260
center of the mind and unconsciousness

591
00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:48,900
whereas the parapsychologists are more

592
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:51,870
taking the view that the consciousness

593
00:31:00,050 --> 00:30:55,890
is outside of the brain and the the

594
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:00,060
brain is just relating as a transceiver

595
00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:02,520
of the information and sort of sorting

596
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:08,430
the information out so right now with

597
00:31:12,589 --> 00:31:09,809
your

598
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:12,599
group what is exactly what is going on

599
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:14,279
right now that we should know about that

600
00:31:20,139 --> 00:31:17,519
our community should know about if they

601
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:20,149
wish to interface with your community

602
00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:24,330
well we we stopped publishing a news

603
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:27,899
journal a couple of years ago and one of

604
00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:31,769
the reasons why is that where our

605
00:31:38,629 --> 00:31:33,929
membership had dwindled a little bit and

606
00:31:41,829 --> 00:31:38,639
Facebook became websites like Facebook

607
00:31:46,339 --> 00:31:41,839
became very popular too for people to

608
00:31:49,549 --> 00:31:46,349
socialize really and so we just kind of

609
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:49,559
felt like we were not doing as much good

610
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:51,929
as we were originally and people pretty

611
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:53,849
evolved into other areas plus I think

612
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:57,570
Lisa and I we were due for a little bit

613
00:32:04,969 --> 00:32:01,559
of vacation time I think so we we've cut

614
00:32:07,879 --> 00:32:04,979
back the I have one research project

615
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:07,889
that I'm still trying to put together

616
00:32:17,229 --> 00:32:12,809
that's studying the the energy content

617
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:17,239
of EVP signals or some sound streams

618
00:32:25,339 --> 00:32:21,690
other than that I produce a an

619
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:25,349
occasional update of what's going on and

620
00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:27,330
and it's there's a place on the website

621
00:32:36,169 --> 00:32:31,080
for a transit org to register for that

622
00:32:38,029 --> 00:32:36,179
and also we're maintaining the the idea

623
00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:38,039
exchange discussion board although right

624
00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:39,960
now it's kind of a ghost town but I

625
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:43,080
maintain that primarily for people who

626
00:32:48,349 --> 00:32:46,049
want to come in and ask questions and

627
00:32:50,299 --> 00:32:48,359
share ideas and everything so I'm

628
00:32:51,619 --> 00:32:50,309
thinking that as people we're out on

629
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:51,629
Facebook they're going to be coming

630
00:32:58,249 --> 00:32:53,519
around to that again so those are the

631
00:33:02,180 --> 00:32:58,259
two areas were who mike myself I'm I'm

632
00:33:03,769 --> 00:33:02,190
in the process of starting a another

633
00:33:05,719 --> 00:33:03,779
book that's focused on trans

634
00:33:08,719 --> 00:33:05,729
communications specifically it's going

635
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,729
to still have some of the social

636
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,799
environmental issues involved in it you

637
00:33:16,820 --> 00:33:12,559
can't get away from the way we perceive

638
00:33:20,660 --> 00:33:16,830
about that but also I want to get back

639
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:20,670
to the video loop ITC

640
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:25,290
and start working on collection of more

641
00:33:30,770 --> 00:33:27,810
modern technology brought to that now

642
00:33:35,630 --> 00:33:30,780
what would you say to somebody who has

643
00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:35,640
had an experience such as a an EVP or an

644
00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:36,470
ITC

645
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:40,980
how can they look to preserve it or in

646
00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:44,730
some way document it what would be your

647
00:33:49,340 --> 00:33:46,860
basic not somebody who's gonna spend

648
00:33:54,410 --> 00:33:49,350
their life doing it but somebody who has

649
00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:54,420
this experience well this always has

650
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,580
been an interesting point the electronic

651
00:34:04,790 --> 00:34:01,440
voice phenomena examples are really

652
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:04,800
quite common and when you start looking

653
00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:08,250
for them and what we try to teach first

654
00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:09,870
of all is people how to be able to

655
00:34:16,130 --> 00:34:13,470
record these for themselves but the

656
00:34:18,770 --> 00:34:16,140
biggest thing I think is for people to

657
00:34:20,570 --> 00:34:18,780
try to the takeaway message on it

658
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:20,580
electronic voice phenomena isn't the

659
00:34:26,659 --> 00:34:23,010
message so much is the fact that it's

660
00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:26,669
there the existence of it and I I think

661
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:29,550
that every every generation or a few

662
00:34:35,180 --> 00:34:32,610
generations has its own spiritual

663
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,190
revelation and you know you go back to

664
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:37,440
Egypt and Hermes and you've got Christ

665
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:39,510
and you've got cultural different

666
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:41,970
teachers come in and provide a

667
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:44,970
revelation of what we who we really are

668
00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:48,950
and our relationship to greater reality

669
00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:54,030
well I feel like the paranormal

670
00:34:59,540 --> 00:34:56,100
phenomena we're all experiencing these

671
00:35:03,470 --> 00:34:59,550
days is part of a new form of revelation

672
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:03,480
and and and effect that it's teaching as

673
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:05,880
far as a physical medium doesn't

674
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:08,940
demonstrate to to give you a g-wiz that

675
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:11,610
was fantastic experience he's teaching

676
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:14,790
you that you continue after the same

677
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:17,730
call death that's really the reason why

678
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:20,310
he demonstrates same thing for

679
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:22,410
mediumship you don't give a message to

680
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,920
somebody to connect them to their loved

681
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:27,480
one because he'll just turn around go

682
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:29,730
find some somebody else and get

683
00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:31,290
connected again and it becomes almost

684
00:35:37,230 --> 00:35:34,420
obsessive what we do is we try to

685
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:37,240
show the continuity of life that's the

686
00:35:42,809 --> 00:35:39,520
revelation well that's wonderful that is

687
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:42,819
and I think the NDE people are kind of

688
00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:46,690
working on the same principles which

689
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:49,030
brings me you sort of answered one of

690
00:35:59,640 --> 00:35:53,680
the questions that one of our listeners

691
00:36:03,180 --> 00:35:59,650
had which was that you had a June 2006

692
00:36:07,620 --> 00:36:03,190
conference which featured Allen botkin

693
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:07,630
the late sarah SC step and Gary Schwartz

694
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:10,450
Alec McCray from the Isle of Skye and

695
00:36:18,809 --> 00:36:14,250
some of the skull experiment people and

696
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:18,819
my friend and and listener said he had

697
00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:21,010
met you there he was very impressed but

698
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:22,900
he was surprised that you never had

699
00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:27,190
another conference and this may be part

700
00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:29,020
of the fact that you decided to take a

701
00:36:34,799 --> 00:36:32,920
little step backward and and take a

702
00:36:36,539 --> 00:36:34,809
vacation if you will is that is that the

703
00:36:40,109 --> 00:36:36,549
case because he was very impressed by

704
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:40,119
your work at that conference that we

705
00:36:43,859 --> 00:36:41,650
were impressed too I mean the people

706
00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:43,869
that we were able to attract to that

707
00:36:55,579 --> 00:36:47,049
from around the world really it was it

708
00:37:02,579 --> 00:36:59,190
organisations money quite a bit actually

709
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,589
and we attempted to have one a couple

710
00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:04,480
years later and actually had to cancel

711
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:08,940
it because the lack of interest Wow it

712
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,930
well there's a couple of things going on

713
00:37:14,460 --> 00:37:12,640
one of them Lisa iron probably not the

714
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:14,470
most charismatic people in the world

715
00:37:21,809 --> 00:37:18,250
we're pragmatic and the majority people

716
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:21,819
working with these phenomena it's more

717
00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:25,359
hobby level in its son if it isn't son

718
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:26,980
they don't want to do it

719
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:29,440
there's old phrasing and spiritual

720
00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:30,880
developments that you've got to do the

721
00:37:36,660 --> 00:37:35,260
work well we our organization kind of

722
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:36,670
build up around the idea that you've got

723
00:37:44,370 --> 00:37:40,450
to do the work right and and there's no

724
00:37:47,069 --> 00:37:44,380
fun so I hear I didn't in danger of

725
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:47,079
making excuses I don't know exactly what

726
00:37:50,910 --> 00:37:47,650
happened

727
00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:50,920
but it has time went on interest moved

728
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:55,380
on to other areas and we just basically

729
00:38:03,450 --> 00:37:58,720
decided that we weren't real successful

730
00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:03,460
and recruiting board members and other

731
00:38:06,990 --> 00:38:06,220
leaders and stuff like that I'm in my

732
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:07,000
70s

733
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:10,330
Oh oh my god and I'm enjoying cruising

734
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:15,520
and I'm writing books and we we've

735
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:17,910
recruited recruited a couple people that

736
00:38:23,970 --> 00:38:21,730
disappeared one of them died and we kind

737
00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:23,980
of gave up so the way it stands right

738
00:38:27,810 --> 00:38:25,990
now is that we're thinking more in terms

739
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,820
of legacy we were trying to preserve

740
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:29,440
we've got all the newsletters on the

741
00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:32,890
website now but it's time for the next

742
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:37,870
generation yes I hear you and it sort of

743
00:38:42,990 --> 00:38:40,630
sounds like the UFO conferences where

744
00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:43,000
the age group is getting older and older

745
00:38:48,330 --> 00:38:45,580
that attends these different UFO

746
00:38:51,050 --> 00:38:48,340
conferences and people want it to be fun

747
00:38:55,620 --> 00:38:51,060
rather than putting in the legwork and

748
00:38:58,500 --> 00:38:55,630
also the younger generation of people do

749
00:39:01,710 --> 00:38:58,510
everything online but my friend had said

750
00:39:04,350 --> 00:39:01,720
that your 2006 conference was very well

751
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:04,360
attended and he was very pleased with it

752
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:06,400
so that's a little Kudo to you at any

753
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:09,520
rate yeah we appreciate that because it

754
00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:11,440
was hard work but it was also very

755
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:14,440
rewarding for us because the the

756
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:18,370
speakers and the attendees well I was

757
00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:20,500
going to say to that it's interesting

758
00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:22,120
that you look on the brain as a

759
00:39:26,130 --> 00:39:24,040
transceiver I mean that would explain

760
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:26,140
the epiphanies that you see throughout

761
00:39:36,810 --> 00:39:29,520
history not just socially but also

762
00:39:39,930 --> 00:39:36,820
scientifically to showing that yeah I

763
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:39,940
mean you know the Watson and Crick

764
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:42,490
waking up thinking about a snake eating

765
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:45,010
its tail and realizing that that's the

766
00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:47,710
RNA or DNA structure there's just so

767
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:50,470
many examples Tesla used to go in these

768
00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:52,930
deep states and then come out and figure

769
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:55,630
out how alternating current existed well

770
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,720
it's almost as if the information exists

771
00:40:02,750 --> 00:40:00,240
out there

772
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:02,760
and I've always had that feeling that

773
00:40:08,780 --> 00:40:05,730
that's you know animals know how to do

774
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:08,790
things they know how to build a nest and

775
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:11,490
we don't and that informations out there

776
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:14,609
go ahead well just a rate radio company

777
00:40:20,089 --> 00:40:16,830
comes to me that radio was sort of

778
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:20,099
simultaneously developed in various

779
00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:22,140
different places in the world not only

780
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:24,030
by Marconi but other people were

781
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,609
developing it at the same time so it was

782
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:29,599
an idea whose time had come and somehow

783
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:33,530
that information was put out on the

784
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:37,530
psychic network so to speak so once

785
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:43,710
again look up Rupert Sheldrake yes he

786
00:40:50,589 --> 00:40:48,060
has a theory actually I'm I'm barred for

787
00:40:54,740 --> 00:40:50,599
life from working on his website his

788
00:40:58,370 --> 00:40:54,750
Wikipedia article it's interesting

789
00:41:01,089 --> 00:40:58,380
because the skeptics just hate his work

790
00:41:04,430 --> 00:41:01,099
he's a wonderful man my fabulous

791
00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:04,440
formative causation basically gives you

792
00:41:10,609 --> 00:41:06,660
a model for why those birds know how to

793
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:10,619
do that and why simultaneous discoveries

794
00:41:16,339 --> 00:41:13,680
occur it's one of the formative

795
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:16,349
influences on the writing of my book so

796
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,540
as an electronics engineer it would be

797
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:20,640
interesting for you to figure out what

798
00:41:24,589 --> 00:41:22,650
the frequency of that transmission is

799
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:24,599
because you could pick up knowing the

800
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:27,359
frequency just lots of information and I

801
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:28,770
think that's that's where you were so

802
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:31,680
headed well we spend a lot of time

803
00:41:37,070 --> 00:41:35,250
looking for frequencies I mean literally

804
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:37,080
we've tried we've looked under just

805
00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:39,660
about every rock you can imagine it's up

806
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:45,270
and down the answer is one of my goals

807
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:48,050
as an engineer you're always looking for

808
00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:51,420
the mechanics I live in a very

809
00:41:58,940 --> 00:41:55,950
actionable philosophy world and the

810
00:42:01,370 --> 00:41:58,950
etheric physical interface what Nick is

811
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:01,380
I know how does this thought turn into a

812
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:03,330
signal and it's up on your recorder

813
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:08,160
well the etheric is conceptual and the

814
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:12,970
physical is conceptual assigned has

815
00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:15,609
physical that's the you know if we're

816
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:18,220
creating our own reality basically what

817
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,630
it boils down to is that we as a

818
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:22,000
collective understanding have decided

819
00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:24,490
that when we have an experience that's

820
00:42:31,859 --> 00:42:27,460
that is supposed to be physical then we

821
00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:31,869
assign physicality to what becomes part

822
00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:35,230
of our consciousness so in a matter of

823
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:37,420
speaking that electronic voice phenomena

824
00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:42,609
is a concept that's been brought into

825
00:42:48,839 --> 00:42:45,060
the physical and the actual physical

826
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:48,849
mechanism force appears to be a form of

827
00:42:53,940 --> 00:42:51,369
stochastic amplification basically

828
00:42:58,050 --> 00:42:53,950
that's a very broad spectrum large

829
00:43:01,410 --> 00:42:58,060
signal audio signal optical signal will

830
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:01,420
amplify a weak signal so that it becomes

831
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:06,730
visible or optical audio that interface

832
00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:10,650
has nothing to do with electromagnetic

833
00:43:20,820 --> 00:43:17,020
electricity frequency anything it's it's

834
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:20,830
it's basically a conceptual influence on

835
00:43:27,359 --> 00:43:23,530
a physical process and the closest I can

836
00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:27,369
come to that is in the brain we don't

837
00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:31,990
see a neuron fire for recognition of a

838
00:43:37,770 --> 00:43:35,140
color we see a field of neurons firing

839
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:37,780
and what they're doing is they're

840
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:42,460
producing broad-spectrum energetic field

841
00:43:50,570 --> 00:43:45,550
very much like the noise in our EVP or

842
00:43:54,270 --> 00:43:50,580
the visible noise and our ITC visual ITC

843
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:54,280
so the the same physical processes we're

844
00:43:58,680 --> 00:43:56,220
seeing here they're everywhere

845
00:44:02,210 --> 00:43:58,690
associated with these phenomena and

846
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:02,220
again the it's very dangerous

847
00:44:09,260 --> 00:44:06,640
intellectually to try to explain these

848
00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:09,270
phenomena based on physical principles

849
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:11,470
because basically what we see is a

850
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:13,450
manifestation you just don't see the

851
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:15,310
energy behind it it has to be an energy

852
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:18,220
field somewhere there has to be if we

853
00:44:24,329 --> 00:44:20,710
influence thanks think influence instead

854
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:24,339
of energy there's an influence but that

855
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:26,770
still has to be it some sort of an

856
00:44:30,750 --> 00:44:28,570
you know when you say energy I'm not

857
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,760
necessarily talking about electricity or

858
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:32,560
whatever but there has to be some sort

859
00:44:37,290 --> 00:44:34,810
of it I don't know for one of a better

860
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:37,300
word maybe a spiritual energy type thing

861
00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:41,290
but there has to be something that I I

862
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:43,870
mean really I mean you just don't get

863
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:49,510
something from nothing reason I make a

864
00:44:57,300 --> 00:44:53,760
point about that is because if if you

865
00:45:00,660 --> 00:44:57,310
can't start thinking in terms of

866
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:00,670
perspective of your your your etheric

867
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:02,700
self further than your physical self

868
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:06,970
then that starts to open up the channel

869
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:09,220
of communication between those two and

870
00:45:17,570 --> 00:45:14,050
if you if you still think like electro

871
00:45:21,380 --> 00:45:17,580
Matic energy is very physical self

872
00:45:24,270 --> 00:45:21,390
explanation were in the etheric world

873
00:45:28,020 --> 00:45:24,280
electromagnetic electromagnetic energy

874
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:28,030
is a product of influence okay so and

875
00:45:32,220 --> 00:45:30,010
it's these are abstractions and I

876
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:32,230
apologize for that but the only way I

877
00:45:38,490 --> 00:45:34,890
can find to help people start thinking

878
00:45:40,580 --> 00:45:38,500
as as not from the inside of their head

879
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:40,590
but from the outside of their head you

880
00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:44,110
know actually it's it's too bad that you

881
00:45:47,970 --> 00:45:46,180
gave up on your studies because I think

882
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:47,980
you were really on to something and as

883
00:45:52,290 --> 00:45:49,810
you said that revelations come as

884
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:52,300
generations come and I think you may

885
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,810
have been the forerunners there well I I

886
00:46:00,420 --> 00:45:58,000
really think that one way to look at it

887
00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:00,430
the way I look at it in any case of what

888
00:46:04,770 --> 00:46:02,590
Kate was talking about to you and you

889
00:46:08,010 --> 00:46:04,780
were answering her as I I kind of look

890
00:46:11,070 --> 00:46:08,020
at it in terms of quantum physics the

891
00:46:15,150 --> 00:46:11,080
way quantum physicists look at it in in

892
00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:15,160
that we're not really matter the matter

893
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:18,220
isn't really you're going into virtual

894
00:46:23,550 --> 00:46:19,930
particles and stuff which is just what

895
00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:23,560
he was saying but Dad I verbalize it a

896
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:24,760
little differently but I think we're

897
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:26,710
coming from the same place what do you

898
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:29,770
think time an interesting exercise is

899
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:32,140
one of the chapters in the book I have

900
00:46:37,410 --> 00:46:33,910
the Mandelbrot set

901
00:46:39,859 --> 00:46:37,420
how are you familiar with fractal

902
00:46:44,499 --> 00:46:39,869
geometry the the man

903
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:44,509
the broad set is an interesting model

904
00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:47,609
for what the greater reality I looked

905
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:52,200
like it you have all this fantastic

906
00:46:56,359 --> 00:46:53,609
universe you can fly through

907
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:56,369
mathematically or by changing changing

908
00:47:01,009 --> 00:46:58,650
the formulas because it's calculated a

909
00:47:03,410 --> 00:47:01,019
point at a time so what you do is you

910
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:03,420
change the beginning point and you're in

911
00:47:08,109 --> 00:47:06,210
another part of it and the faster that

912
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:08,119
the calculation goes to infinity

913
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:10,410
determines the color that you assign to

914
00:47:17,620 --> 00:47:13,670
where you're anyway the whole thing is

915
00:47:21,799 --> 00:47:17,630
infinitely large mathematical universe

916
00:47:23,809 --> 00:47:21,809
is in an area that is only numerically

917
00:47:26,019 --> 00:47:23,819
it's what's an imaginary space it's

918
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:26,029
numerically between one and two and

919
00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:30,450
imaginary number one or two so if you

920
00:47:39,499 --> 00:47:35,660
think of that the creation of our world

921
00:47:46,029 --> 00:47:39,509
is such a very simple idea can create

922
00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:46,039
such complexity that then can take on a

923
00:47:50,989 --> 00:47:49,230
reality of its own and if you're that

924
00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:50,999
point wandering random there with

925
00:47:58,279 --> 00:47:54,329
different assumptions it all gets to be

926
00:48:00,769 --> 00:47:58,289
the point where it's just an imaginary

927
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:00,779
exercise right what I've come to say is

928
00:48:08,779 --> 00:48:04,650
that the most important formative

929
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:08,789
principle we've got is perceptual

930
00:48:13,630 --> 00:48:10,890
agreement if you're not perceptually an

931
00:48:16,609 --> 00:48:13,640
agreement with an aspect of reality

932
00:48:19,099 --> 00:48:16,619
that's good but but that's one of the

933
00:48:20,599 --> 00:48:19,109
major arguments against creationism

934
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:20,609
where they say oh the world is so

935
00:48:24,739 --> 00:48:22,710
complex that it couldn't possibly have

936
00:48:26,509 --> 00:48:24,749
just come into existence on its own

937
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:26,519
someone would have had to create it but

938
00:48:31,819 --> 00:48:30,210
you know madman mathematics such as the

939
00:48:34,279 --> 00:48:31,829
Mandelbrot set would explain it

940
00:48:36,499 --> 00:48:34,289
but which also it's always always so

941
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:36,509
annoying to me that they finally found a

942
00:48:41,989 --> 00:48:39,960
star with seven planets and I mean how

943
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:41,999
could they not have expected to find

944
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:44,970
something like that it's just such

945
00:48:49,339 --> 00:48:46,920
you're right the the whole universe is

946
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:49,349
such a fractal patterning I mean of

947
00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:51,630
course II thought it's had to be there

948
00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:53,579
and you know that there's gonna be life

949
00:49:00,319 --> 00:48:58,440
there yeah oh you know that this I mean

950
00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:00,329
who knows what form but it's definitely

951
00:49:02,839 --> 00:49:01,470
some sort

952
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:02,849
well like you were just saying that

953
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:06,720
there's a force of some nature that

954
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:09,180
manifests itself in different ways and

955
00:49:15,219 --> 00:49:13,200
maybe it's not an actual energetic force

956
00:49:18,979 --> 00:49:15,229
but it is something out there that is

957
00:49:20,299 --> 00:49:18,989
well create manifestations and it's

958
00:49:24,469 --> 00:49:20,309
throughout the universe so of course

959
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,479
you're gonna see life forms yeah and

960
00:49:29,749 --> 00:49:26,400
what's interesting with within the model

961
00:49:32,210 --> 00:49:29,759
that I use for I describe it ourselves

962
00:49:33,769 --> 00:49:32,220
our relationship between ourselves and

963
00:49:40,819 --> 00:49:33,779
our physical body as an avatar

964
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:40,829
relationship oh and the model doesn't

965
00:49:46,460 --> 00:49:44,249
restrict you to people to human beings

966
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:46,470
there's nothing to say that your your

967
00:49:54,259 --> 00:49:51,170
cat is in a Avatar relationship with a

968
00:49:57,019 --> 00:49:54,269
non-physical personality as well and

969
00:49:59,029 --> 00:49:57,029
there's a universality that you really

970
00:50:01,609 --> 00:49:59,039
thought the most common denominator of

971
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:01,619
all a reality is a combination of life

972
00:50:07,489 --> 00:50:05,729
field and intention somewhat this sounds

973
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:07,499
a little bit like one of our previous

974
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:11,609
guests Tom Campbell who wrote my big toe

975
00:50:17,289 --> 00:50:13,170
theory of everything are you familiar

976
00:50:32,499 --> 00:50:23,559
after examining four or five toes I

977
00:50:36,499 --> 00:50:32,509
finally got to the point where okay so

978
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:36,509
just to finish out here we have one

979
00:50:42,529 --> 00:50:39,930
other question from somebody who knew

980
00:50:45,410 --> 00:50:42,539
that you were coming on and who is our

981
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:45,420
listener and this question wanted to

982
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:49,529
know if forever families still exists

983
00:50:56,059 --> 00:50:53,609
with dr. Julie by shell and dr. Gary

984
00:50:58,599 --> 00:50:56,069
Schwartz and if you had anything to do

985
00:51:02,569 --> 00:50:58,609
with them over the course of your

986
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:02,579
experiences well we've we've spoke out

987
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:04,770
the number of their conferences

988
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:07,200
and in the past have been very

989
00:51:14,500 --> 00:51:09,090
supportive of them see there's their

990
00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:14,510
life and well they're the Guggenheim's

991
00:51:21,950 --> 00:51:19,310
wrong the wrong people there Fran and

992
00:51:26,330 --> 00:51:21,960
Bill yeah Guggenheim that's right

993
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:26,340
they work as hard as anybody to bring

994
00:51:30,350 --> 00:51:28,110
these phenomena to the public and to

995
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:30,360
help people understand what their

996
00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:32,390
experiences are their focus is mostly on

997
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:36,350
mediumship they do an excellent job of

998
00:51:42,260 --> 00:51:38,670
testing mediums and trying to make sure

999
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:42,270
that they're safe to be we've referred

1000
00:51:49,310 --> 00:51:47,250
for those people I think that Gary and

1001
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:49,320
Julie still involved with and I'm not

1002
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:51,660
sure we're Gary as these days but

1003
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:53,850
they're still very much alive and well

1004
00:51:57,830 --> 00:51:56,010
yes the forever family's group is what

1005
00:52:01,520 --> 00:51:57,840
you're speaking about right because I've

1006
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:01,530
met I've met the good doctor Julie at an

1007
00:52:05,930 --> 00:52:03,830
SSE Conference and she's a very very

1008
00:52:09,050 --> 00:52:05,940
interesting she and her husband are very

1009
00:52:12,530 --> 00:52:09,060
very interesting and their wind bridge

1010
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:12,540
Institute is a fascinating concept I

1011
00:52:19,340 --> 00:52:14,910
don't know mr. Schwartz dr. Schwartz but

1012
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:19,350
I have met dr. by shell and I just had

1013
00:52:23,060 --> 00:52:20,730
this question I don't know anything

1014
00:52:25,610 --> 00:52:23,070
about forever families except that they

1015
00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:25,620
give support to the parents of children

1016
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:27,420
who died is that that would be the

1017
00:52:34,730 --> 00:52:30,870
general that's their their purpose they

1018
00:52:39,950 --> 00:52:34,740
they had lost lost a child too early and

1019
00:52:42,290 --> 00:52:39,960
as the story goes they went to meetings

1020
00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:42,300
for grief recovery and everything and

1021
00:52:46,970 --> 00:52:44,790
and talking about communication with a

1022
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:46,980
dead loved one wasn't allowed in a

1023
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:48,180
meeting so that they were finding

1024
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:49,590
themselves out in the parking lot

1025
00:52:54,460 --> 00:52:52,170
talking about it and decided it was time

1026
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:54,470
to start an organization dedicated that

1027
00:53:00,110 --> 00:52:57,570
you know Tom earlier you said that you

1028
00:53:01,910 --> 00:53:00,120
have to do the work if one of our

1029
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,920
listeners gets interested in this field

1030
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:03,660
and would like to do that how do they

1031
00:53:08,060 --> 00:53:06,570
start I mean it's certainly I don't

1032
00:53:10,370 --> 00:53:08,070
think there's any courses in the

1033
00:53:12,350 --> 00:53:10,380
colleges right now well I guess a few

1034
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:12,360
but I mean how would you start

1035
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:15,200
investigating this where does one start

1036
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:18,080
well one of the things that

1037
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:22,210
think is important is to realize the the

1038
00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:25,010
who the major players are in the sense

1039
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:29,240
that the majority of parapsychologists

1040
00:53:37,690 --> 00:53:32,480
are actually mainstream psychologists

1041
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:37,700
are and I'm animalistic psychology I

1042
00:53:44,190 --> 00:53:39,410
never pronounce that word correctly but

1043
00:53:47,740 --> 00:53:44,200
the psychology anomalous experiences

1044
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:47,750
it's basically dedicated to showing that

1045
00:53:53,620 --> 00:53:50,350
these paranormal phenomena are actually

1046
00:53:55,390 --> 00:53:53,630
ordinary things mistaking as paranormal

1047
00:53:59,610 --> 00:53:55,400
so they're basically debunkers but

1048
00:54:02,830 --> 00:53:59,620
they're also probably a majority of the

1049
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:02,840
parapsychologist the next larger group

1050
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:05,210
is the exceptional experiences

1051
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:08,720
psychology people and they support the

1052
00:54:18,180 --> 00:54:11,570
idea of the existence of a sigh field I

1053
00:54:22,510 --> 00:54:18,190
refer to them that super sigh and so and

1054
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:22,520
they they accept a greater reality in

1055
00:54:29,950 --> 00:54:26,480
the sense that when you die the memory

1056
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:29,960
your memory remains in the ethers

1057
00:54:39,100 --> 00:54:32,960
forever and it's somehow accessible by

1058
00:54:41,740 --> 00:54:39,110
other people that is a it's in from my

1059
00:54:44,860 --> 00:54:41,750
perspective as a survival person that's

1060
00:54:46,890 --> 00:54:44,870
an anti survival position and then a

1061
00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:46,900
very very small minority of the

1062
00:54:52,620 --> 00:54:49,400
parapsychologists are actually think

1063
00:54:54,850 --> 00:54:52,630
that survival is real and are working to

1064
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:54,860
understand it and Julie for instance is

1065
00:55:00,820 --> 00:54:56,480
one of those mm-hmm

1066
00:55:02,890 --> 00:55:00,830
the I think that when a person studies

1067
00:55:06,010 --> 00:55:02,900
is you know they can take a course in

1068
00:55:07,630 --> 00:55:06,020
psychology at a university and probably

1069
00:55:10,090 --> 00:55:07,640
get talked out of thinking that these

1070
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:10,100
phenomena are real so you really have to

1071
00:55:15,180 --> 00:55:13,280
be careful about that in terms of

1072
00:55:18,940 --> 00:55:15,190
learning how to work with the phenomena

1073
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:18,950
one of the places I would go is the

1074
00:55:24,670 --> 00:55:21,650
first of all both both a transitory and

1075
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:24,680
a thorough studies the CEREC studies is

1076
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:28,370
my personal website and I feel free to

1077
00:55:31,930 --> 00:55:30,050
be a little bit more outlandish in it

1078
00:55:36,020 --> 00:55:31,940
than I can

1079
00:55:38,330 --> 00:55:36,030
so and in that there's there's a lot of

1080
00:55:39,890 --> 00:55:38,340
information that I think I try to offer

1081
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:39,900
references so there's a lot of good

1082
00:55:45,530 --> 00:55:43,440
study guides there they try and see

1083
00:55:47,660 --> 00:55:45,540
there's a white paper if they google or

1084
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:47,670
not Google you say if they search on the

1085
00:55:54,110 --> 00:55:51,090
website for a white paper they'll find a

1086
00:55:56,900 --> 00:55:54,120
really good rundown on how to what what

1087
00:55:59,480 --> 00:55:56,910
the both forms of ITC are and how to

1088
00:56:02,420 --> 00:55:59,490
work with them so that's kind of where

1089
00:56:04,460 --> 00:56:02,430
I'd start okay we're always happy to

1090
00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,470
answer questions there's a contact form

1091
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:06,180
so again I guess we should give the

1092
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:09,030
website and the book but that's so

1093
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,490
you're uh if someone is interested and

1094
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:13,440
they contact you via the website you're

1095
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:16,290
happy to speak to them or or you

1096
00:56:19,790 --> 00:56:19,200
communicate with them okay that's nice

1097
00:56:22,490 --> 00:56:19,800
to know

1098
00:56:24,590 --> 00:56:22,500
well we will give the the book and the

1099
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:24,600
website at the end we have more coming

1100
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:26,490
or too close we're not quite finished

1101
00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:26,930
yet

1102
00:56:35,570 --> 00:56:33,060
and I guess I wanted to sort of ask you

1103
00:56:37,970 --> 00:56:35,580
a little bit about my experience this

1104
00:56:43,610 --> 00:56:37,980
morning and my one and only experience

1105
00:56:46,370 --> 00:56:43,620
with EVP I have lots and lots of psychic

1106
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:46,380
experiences of various sorts but about a

1107
00:56:54,530 --> 00:56:52,050
month after 9/11 I have an apartment in

1108
00:56:57,470 --> 00:56:54,540
Manhattan and I was in that apartment

1109
00:57:00,350 --> 00:56:57,480
and I still had one of the older

1110
00:57:02,510 --> 00:57:00,360
fashioned answering machines which

1111
00:57:05,930 --> 00:57:02,520
basically most people don't have anymore

1112
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:05,940
but that was 16 years ago and I had one

1113
00:57:12,620 --> 00:57:09,570
and between messages online on this

1114
00:57:15,850 --> 00:57:12,630
machine came a voice a man's voice that

1115
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:15,860
I didn't recognize and it said get out

1116
00:57:20,510 --> 00:57:19,110
like that and it was a little bit

1117
00:57:24,170 --> 00:57:20,520
frightning and that was my only

1118
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:24,180
experience with an actual phenomena that

1119
00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:27,900
was would have been perceivable to

1120
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:29,790
anybody when the room I would expect

1121
00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:33,780
that came out of my machine and so that

1122
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:35,880
was my single experience and and I

1123
00:57:38,060 --> 00:57:37,410
wonder if you could speak to that for a

1124
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:38,070
second

1125
00:57:42,830 --> 00:57:41,370
the those you know first of all the you

1126
00:57:45,870 --> 00:57:42,840
know the characteristics have it all

1127
00:57:50,350 --> 00:57:45,880
pretty consistent free

1128
00:57:52,540 --> 00:57:50,360
we found zero reason to be afraid of EVP

1129
00:57:55,390 --> 00:57:52,550
and some of the the get out ones have

1130
00:58:01,570 --> 00:57:55,400
been actually pretty humorous we have

1131
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:01,580
one EVP this is prepare to die anyway

1132
00:58:06,340 --> 00:58:04,730
that there's two things I would say one

1133
00:58:10,570 --> 00:58:06,350
of them it does sound like an EVP and

1134
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:10,580
two is I would try to remember where

1135
00:58:15,660 --> 00:58:13,520
your head was at the time like if you

1136
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:15,670
were thinking about moving out of there

1137
00:58:21,970 --> 00:58:19,970
that would be because we feel like you

1138
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:21,980
know were the channel for these messages

1139
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:24,550
with either ourselves or an entrance

1140
00:58:30,700 --> 00:58:28,160
interested observer it's possible for a

1141
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,710
person liek Lisa doesn't believe in

1142
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:32,960
demons doesn't believe in she's not

1143
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:35,450
afraid of dirt she's very pragmatic she

1144
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:37,610
recorded in that room along with a girl

1145
00:58:43,810 --> 00:58:41,650
that just loved to be afraid she's

1146
00:58:47,290 --> 00:58:43,820
history personality

1147
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:47,300
they both recorded in this area together

1148
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:49,850
different of course and that the scary

1149
00:58:54,220 --> 00:58:52,610
girl got get out I hate you

1150
00:58:56,620 --> 00:58:54,230
go away stuff like that at least I got

1151
00:59:00,880 --> 00:58:56,630
useful information about people who live

1152
00:59:03,070 --> 00:59:00,890
there and stuff we know with a high

1153
00:59:08,290 --> 00:59:03,080
degree of confidence that the the

1154
00:59:09,940 --> 00:59:08,300
message originates for real but we again

1155
00:59:12,100 --> 00:59:09,950
we transform it with our unconscious

1156
00:59:14,770 --> 00:59:12,110
mind we're the channel for the things

1157
00:59:17,530 --> 00:59:14,780
propagating into the physical that's the

1158
00:59:19,630 --> 00:59:17,540
model we're using anyway and so you're

1159
00:59:23,380 --> 00:59:19,640
what I do with that get out I would also

1160
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:23,390
look at possibly some of the look what's

1161
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:26,030
in your thoughts at the time I would be

1162
00:59:31,930 --> 00:59:28,730
a liar if I didn't say that almost

1163
00:59:34,750 --> 00:59:31,940
everyone that I came in contact with in

1164
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:34,760
lower Manhattan within the months

1165
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:38,000
directly after 9/11 didn't have thoughts

1166
00:59:45,370 --> 00:59:40,370
in their mind such as what am I doing

1167
00:59:47,650 --> 00:59:45,380
here why do I live here but I so I'm

1168
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:47,660
sure that your explanation there would

1169
00:59:53,350 --> 00:59:50,690
ring very true to me now the second

1170
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:53,360
thing was that this morning in the early

1171
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,690
morning hours I was not the first time

1172
01:00:00,849 --> 00:59:57,920
such a thing has happened

1173
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:00,859
me but I sometimes hear voices okay and

1174
01:00:05,140 --> 01:00:03,170
I kind of characterized those voices

1175
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:05,150
differently and this is just it's not

1176
01:00:10,660 --> 01:00:07,490
meant to be when I say this I'm not

1177
01:00:12,849 --> 01:00:10,670
teaching so it's just what I do if

1178
01:00:15,730 --> 01:00:12,859
you're if the voice seems to come from

1179
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:15,740
within my head like in my brain in my

1180
01:00:19,329 --> 01:00:17,359
mind whatever you want to say I

1181
01:00:22,390 --> 01:00:19,339
characterize that as possibly coming

1182
01:00:24,970 --> 01:00:22,400
from my higher self whereas if the voice

1183
01:00:27,490 --> 01:00:24,980
seems to come from outside my head I

1184
01:00:32,140 --> 01:00:27,500
characterize that as perhaps being a

1185
01:00:35,799 --> 01:00:32,150
message from another another entity on

1186
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:35,809
some level so this morning I was laying

1187
01:00:43,030 --> 01:00:37,250
in bed it was the wee hours of the

1188
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:43,040
morning and in my right ear I heard the

1189
01:00:50,020 --> 01:00:45,440
sound of a harpsichord only one or two

1190
01:00:52,270 --> 01:00:50,030
notes and I was like I sat up in bed I

1191
01:00:56,140 --> 01:00:52,280
mean I was kind of in a liminal state

1192
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:56,150
but I wasn't asleep and I sat up in bed

1193
01:00:59,799 --> 01:00:58,400
and I sleep with two pillows and I

1194
01:01:02,260 --> 01:00:59,809
looked under the pillows and there was

1195
01:01:03,609 --> 01:01:02,270
nothing there to make a noise and so I

1196
01:01:05,890 --> 01:01:03,619
said wow that's weird

1197
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:05,900
put my head back down again and very

1198
01:01:11,380 --> 01:01:08,720
shortly thereafter again and this time

1199
01:01:15,970 --> 01:01:11,390
it was clearly two different notes that

1200
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:15,980
were hit and I sat up again looked again

1201
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:18,079
and I thought to myself could it be an

1202
01:01:22,839 --> 01:01:20,960
insect in my pillow but in fact of other

1203
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:22,849
times I've heard buzzers and stuff like

1204
01:01:27,819 --> 01:01:26,089
that so I lay back down again and I

1205
01:01:30,130 --> 01:01:27,829
would say five to ten minutes later

1206
01:01:35,220 --> 01:01:30,140
darned if it didn't happen again and

1207
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:35,230
this time it was like the kind of almost

1208
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:38,210
electronic Bell that's inside a child's

1209
01:01:44,609 --> 01:01:41,510
ball that's if has a very sweet sound to

1210
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:44,619
it you might give such a ball to a

1211
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:50,049
toddler or someone around that age and

1212
01:01:55,930 --> 01:01:52,609
after that I there's no point in trying

1213
01:01:58,660 --> 01:01:55,940
to sleep anymore because and I thought

1214
01:02:01,690 --> 01:01:58,670
how interesting since we're going to be

1215
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:01,700
speaking to Tom Butler later and he is

1216
01:02:06,670 --> 01:02:03,530
very much involved in these different

1217
01:02:10,809 --> 01:02:06,680
sorts of voices so I just wanted to pass

1218
01:02:11,549 --> 01:02:10,819
that on to you and thank you so much for

1219
01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:11,559
being on

1220
01:02:14,339 --> 01:02:12,609
I don't know if you have anything to say

1221
01:02:15,809 --> 01:02:14,349
about that I don't blame you if you

1222
01:02:19,650 --> 01:02:15,819
don't it this is just the kind of a

1223
01:02:23,630 --> 01:02:19,660
personal experience but I would say one

1224
01:02:27,449 --> 01:02:23,640
thing one of things that you assigned

1225
01:02:29,789 --> 01:02:27,459
the meaning of the source of voices you

1226
01:02:31,469 --> 01:02:29,799
here bye-bye where you perceive them to

1227
01:02:33,929 --> 01:02:31,479
coming from yes that's actually a pretty

1228
01:02:37,109 --> 01:02:33,939
pretty good way of being a because yeah

1229
01:02:39,089 --> 01:02:37,119
in it again you're instructing your

1230
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:39,099
unconscious mind that this is the way I

1231
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:40,569
want to hear this and there's the way I

1232
01:02:46,259 --> 01:02:44,319
want to hear that so that's pretty valid

1233
01:02:50,519 --> 01:02:46,269
and there is you know of course you can

1234
01:02:54,569 --> 01:02:50,529
look at the the the traditional direct

1235
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:54,579
voice is in the air and and it's one of

1236
01:02:59,969 --> 01:02:56,170
the ways that physical medium will

1237
01:03:05,099 --> 01:02:59,979
manifest a voice and often that voice

1238
01:03:07,739 --> 01:03:05,109
will be of unknown discounted

1239
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:07,749
personality and with some very often

1240
01:03:16,769 --> 01:03:11,890
very good information so yeah I think

1241
01:03:18,959 --> 01:03:16,779
that that's subliminal state that hyper

1242
01:03:22,219 --> 01:03:18,969
cocky I think I'm saying all right said

1243
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:22,229
that that state between sleep and awake

1244
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,209
some really interesting lucid

1245
01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:27,039
experiences can occur

1246
01:03:32,419 --> 01:03:29,920
yes sure I do we can hear you know radio

1247
01:03:36,479 --> 01:03:32,429
stations in the air so like that so our

1248
01:03:40,109 --> 01:03:36,489
brains are very good at filling vacuums

1249
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:40,119
with whatever comes to mind but sound

1250
01:03:44,699 --> 01:03:41,650
like you know that that kind of Bell

1251
01:03:47,969 --> 01:03:44,709
might not have any meaning but it

1252
01:03:50,609 --> 01:03:47,979
certainly is the kind of thing that

1253
01:03:51,949 --> 01:03:50,619
would trigger your thinking to pay more

1254
01:03:55,529 --> 01:03:51,959
attention

1255
01:04:00,079 --> 01:03:55,539
unroll uses something like that for okay

1256
01:04:03,319 --> 01:04:00,089
wake up listen up going on yes yes I

1257
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:03,329
have frequented the Monroe Institute and

1258
01:04:09,749 --> 01:04:07,359
so that's a really wonderful place to to

1259
01:04:13,169 --> 01:04:09,759
visit but before we say goodbye could

1260
01:04:15,449 --> 01:04:13,179
you possibly recite to us here at the

1261
01:04:19,939 --> 01:04:15,459
name of your book and your websites for

1262
01:04:22,769 --> 01:04:19,949
our listening audience okay well it the

1263
01:04:24,730 --> 01:04:22,779
main website is the Association

1264
01:04:32,530 --> 01:04:24,740
transcommunication it's eight

1265
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:32,540
and see a TR ans see at org and that's

1266
01:04:39,730 --> 01:04:36,890
that's got a contact page that is

1267
01:04:42,450 --> 01:04:39,740
accessible from every page and also I

1268
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:42,460
have link to that a idea exchange

1269
01:04:48,250 --> 01:04:44,690
discussion forum that people are welcome

1270
01:04:51,010 --> 01:04:48,260
to join and then etheric studies org is

1271
01:04:55,540 --> 01:04:51,020
my own personal pages and it also has

1272
01:04:58,300 --> 01:04:55,550
contact information on it the the book

1273
01:05:02,650 --> 01:04:58,310
itself is your immortal self exploring

1274
01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:02,660
the mindful way and it's got primarily

1275
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:05,630
it's a theory that I've talked about

1276
01:05:11,410 --> 01:05:09,680
some here trying to give you a model one

1277
01:05:13,420 --> 01:05:11,420
of the things that these two almost

1278
01:05:15,910 --> 01:05:13,430
everyday beat me up about when I was a

1279
01:05:17,590 --> 01:05:15,920
Wikipedia editor the skeptic could say

1280
01:05:20,410 --> 01:05:17,600
well you guys don't have even a theory

1281
01:05:23,790 --> 01:05:20,420
to explain this so this book is my

1282
01:05:27,490 --> 01:05:23,800
attempt to provide that theory and then

1283
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:27,500
the three phases of a teacher one of the

1284
01:05:32,490 --> 01:05:30,290
phases is how you live so the the

1285
01:05:35,260 --> 01:05:32,500
environment in which we work with

1286
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:35,270
paranormal phenomena is a second section

1287
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:37,130
and the last section is how the theory

1288
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:40,850
applies to the various forms of

1289
01:05:46,450 --> 01:05:43,730
phenomena a specifically EVP and IDC but

1290
01:05:50,740 --> 01:05:46,460
also healing intention stuff like that

1291
01:05:54,940 --> 01:05:50,750
so the book is is what I have tried to

1292
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:54,950
do a if I'm not here and I want people

1293
01:05:59,320 --> 01:05:56,960
to learn things that I was been trying

1294
01:06:02,560 --> 01:05:59,330
to teach him all my life there's a book

1295
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:02,570
it's a wonderful book and we barely

1296
01:06:07,210 --> 01:06:04,880
scratched the surface with it it is it

1297
01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:07,220
has so much information that it would

1298
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:10,640
take many many podcasts time frames to

1299
01:06:15,730 --> 01:06:13,250
really delve into all the wonderful

1300
01:06:17,620 --> 01:06:15,740
information you have in there and and

1301
01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:17,630
and Tom Butler I want to thank you very

1302
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:19,630
much for being on we send our best

1303
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:23,119
regards to Lisa and go ahead yeah no I

1304
01:06:27,580 --> 01:06:24,650
was just saying that the book itself

1305
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:27,590
proves your theory you you had this

1306
01:06:34,290 --> 01:06:30,050
information it manifested as a book and

1307
01:06:38,170 --> 01:06:34,300
they know that's it yeah it is

1308
01:06:41,230 --> 01:06:38,180
congratulations or beyond that I would

1309
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:41,240
say to those folks at Wikipedia because

1310
01:06:46,540 --> 01:06:43,970
one doesn't have an explanation for a

1311
01:06:52,030 --> 01:06:46,550
phenomena doesn't mean it doesn't exist

1312
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:52,040
and as we say in the Bronx we're a

1313
01:07:00,520 --> 01:06:54,890
little bit a little bit of reverent II

1314
01:07:02,740 --> 01:07:00,530
rats shattered reality bomb skeptics are

1315
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:02,750
basically you're dealing with a

1316
01:07:12,130 --> 01:07:04,970
situation of where's problem scientism

1317
01:07:14,170 --> 01:07:12,140
as a religion yes yes a little healthy

1318
01:07:17,380 --> 01:07:14,180
skepticism is good but debunking

1319
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:17,390
definitely stinks that's my opinion they

1320
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:21,170
stole the term skeptic or skepticism so

1321
01:07:29,260 --> 01:07:26,510
I see a little bit of healthy yes yes I

1322
01:07:30,910 --> 01:07:29,270
agree so once again thank you so much

1323
01:07:33,790 --> 01:07:30,920
yeah a really appreciate a great

1324
01:07:35,620 --> 01:07:33,800
discussion it's a field that I really

1325
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:35,630
had absolutely no knowledge of before

1326
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:38,450
but now I am as they you say in the

1327
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:41,090
spiritual world enlightened and I thank

1328
01:07:47,620 --> 01:07:45,770
you for that okay so take care now Tom

1329
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:47,630
we hope to have you back sometime bye

1330
01:07:54,370 --> 01:07:52,250
now bye well that was a really that was

1331
01:07:56,770 --> 01:07:54,380
a really interesting conversation with

1332
01:07:58,510 --> 01:07:56,780
Tom Butler and he really is a fount of

1333
01:08:03,190 --> 01:07:58,520
knowledge what was it

1334
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:03,200
did you hear that noise that is so funny

1335
01:08:09,700 --> 01:08:05,690
I honestly listeners or people out there

1336
01:08:11,740 --> 01:08:09,710
that was not staged no it wasn't I did

1337
01:08:14,350 --> 01:08:11,750
you hear the cat too and he was speaking

1338
01:08:19,090 --> 01:08:14,360
I heard something just now very very

1339
01:08:23,820 --> 01:08:19,100
well just now was yeah I wonder if it

1340
01:08:27,340 --> 01:08:23,830
did - we'll have to wait until ooh we we

1341
01:08:31,330 --> 01:08:27,350
work out our website and our podcast

1342
01:08:33,580 --> 01:08:31,340
here and see if it recorded on on well

1343
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:33,590
the physical manifestation is the

1344
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:36,710
goosebumps I just got there you go there

1345
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:38,810
you go there was definitely a very

1346
01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:43,970
strange down there and Wow from

1347
01:08:50,050 --> 01:08:47,270
shattered reality mm-hmm I'm ferocious

1348
01:08:51,519 --> 01:08:50,060
yeah I am Kate Valentine and we hope to

1349
01:08:53,249 --> 01:08:51,529
hear from you

1350
01:08:55,959 --> 01:08:53,259
sinners out there if you have

1351
01:08:58,329 --> 01:08:55,969
experiences for our Leo please

1352
01:09:01,149 --> 01:08:58,339
you don't give us a buzz let us know

1353
01:09:05,079 --> 01:09:01,159
it's on the website yeah we have various

1354
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:05,089
ways to contact us please do so and we

1355
01:09:13,059 --> 01:09:10,730
will be happy yeah more than happy in

1356
01:09:15,689 --> 01:09:13,069
our listeners corner yeah okay that was

1357
01:09:18,099 --> 01:09:15,699
weird well okay on another word of

1358
01:09:21,519 --> 01:09:18,109
recording of shattered reality we are

1359
01:09:32,769 --> 01:09:21,529
here to say I do goodbye goodbye from

1360
01:09:32,779 --> 01:09:43,360
[Music]